Comments on Crossing Nineveh: Confirmation Requirements: Best Faith Formation Pr...

I agree with +JMJ+ about catechizing the parents. ...

2008-05-02T13:04:00.000-04:00

I agree with +JMJ+ about catechizing the parents. Family involvement is a crucial element!

My 2nd graders have supplemental lessons to complete at home for First Recon & First Eucharist. Those at-home lessons make all the difference, because the parents become catechists (at least for those lessons)! And as we teach, we learn!

Our DRE *wishes* we could require supplemental lessons for the other grade levels - I think we could and should. I'm going to talk to her more, and our pastor.

A wonderful post and interesting comments...much t...

2008-05-02T09:18:00.000-04:00

A wonderful post and interesting comments...much to think about.

To that list of best faith formation practices I would add regular holy hours of Eucharistic Adoration. Along the lines of the commenter who said,"getting to know" Jesus...nothing compares to that time in silence with Our Lord. What ever happened to silence? We only hear Our Lord in silence. Our teens are being trained to fill up their lives with noise.

Another concern, also touched on in comments, is what Steven Kellmeyer (Designed to Fail) has written on as well. Parents need to be catechized and our churches should be focusing on that.

I developed a bookcover that had the ten commandme...

2008-05-02T01:53:00.000-04:00

I developed a bookcover that had the ten commandments, the mysteries of the rosary, the virtues for each mystery, the corporal and spiritual works of mercy, the beatitudes, the morning offering and the prayer the angel taught the three children at Fatima.

The bookcover went on all the books in the grade school. Then when the books went home with the child and homework was done -- guess what--the parents read the outside of the bookcover. I also thought if the child was daydreaming in class and they had a bookcover on their book they might read the bookcover rather than day dream. It takes 15 exposures to a fact before one will remember it. The goal was to expose the child to what we wanted them to learn at least 15 times.

To pray the rosary better I developed a rosary DVD which has 200 scriptural phrases and 200 images. You can see it at www.Scripturerosary.com. It teaches the scriptures with pictures and teaches the virtues for each mystery.

I'm jealous that you had a chance to meet Dr. Demi...

2008-05-01T22:31:00.000-04:00

I'm jealous that you had a chance to meet Dr. Deming. My father took his famous 4-day class at General Motors in the 1980's.

Your comment "Today, Deming’s measurement and testing techniques are the backbone of American industry."

Unfortunately, that really couldn't be further from the truth. Dr. Deming's message has been lost, for the most part. Companies are still run under the same old management practices that Dr. Deming always railed against.

His philosophy "should" be the backbone of American industry, but it's not.

He *was* incredibly influential to Toyota and that comes across in the books about Toyota's management system. Look at Toyota's success today compared to Ford's and GM's...

Very interesting post, even to a non-Catholic who is just married to one (I'm Eastern Orthodox).

Stan, Thank you! If I would have had your article...

2008-05-01T21:57:00.000-04:00

Stan,
Thank you! If I would have had your article several years ago when I was writing my thesis on religious education vs. faith formation, it would have been the icing on the cake! As a youth minister for many years, I have experienced 2 things that "make" or "break" a program. The most important piece is the families of the students involved. If they do not "buy" into the program, then there isn't much you can do. But, if you CAN get them to come to sessions themselves (concurrently running sessions work wonderfully for this), the success of the program goes up exponentially.

The second piece that determines the success of the program is the support of the pastor. The pastor has to be willing to stand by the program and the director of the program when parents whine about time constraints etc.

4 years ago, we were faced with the choice of moving our children into a parish school about 25 minutes from our home or home school all of them after a bullying session at the public school. After viewing the materials from both programs, we opted to homeschool. Now, my children (including my kindergartener) are "teaching" their peers at church events including VBS. The difference between the programs? We use the catechism and my children memorize the catechism questions/answers starting in 1st grade. AND not only do they learn it, but I am learning it myself. After going through a Catholic University and receiving a Masters Degree in youth ministry, I am learning more myself through the catechism questions/answers than I did from some of my college level theology classes.

Again, thank you for saying what so many of us feel but have no means for voicing!

Excellent article!My experience is similar to many...

2008-05-01T19:47:00.000-04:00

Excellent article!
My experience is similar to many of the above - I am simply a catechist, not in management. I have a system for teaching that seems to work for me, but because of poor parent support and pastoral support I don't know if it makes any difference in my students' lives. I usually start off with reading a chapter of the Faith and Life book for the appropriate grade, then I like to include a telling of the story of the life of a saint (for inspiration and example), then we usually play a game, like "Credo" (see Faith and Life teachers guide. I make up my own Credo cards ahead of time and I have several sets - a basic catechism version, a saints version a Confirmation version, and a Virtues version.) By the end of a few rounds of Credo, most of the class know most of the answers.
However, then Confirmation comes around. The Bishop only comes every third year, so most of our students are confirmed by the parish priest. Then, the music at the mass is absolutely unspectacular (Circle of Friends, Children of the Light, etc.) and its very easy to see what will become of the children's year of catechism.
I'm complaining too much, perhaps, but it's a bit exasperating.

We are a homeschool family who once sent our child...

2008-05-01T13:42:00.000-04:00

We are a homeschool family who once sent our children to CCD ( PSR) classes (no longer). I have been a 2nd grade catechist for 8 + years and tried to make so many changes in our parish to improve the "curriculum" both with the children and the parents. It wasn't easy and it didn't last. The parish felt that they needed the expensive packaged curriculums where I was working with the Baltimore Catechism and other easy less expensive books. More understandable for the children and the parents. I also involved the parents in the classes I taught for First Communion and many enjoyed being with their child and learning with them. I understand this article was about Confiramtion requirements, but I truly feel you need to begin at the foundation...the classes offered for the littlest ones, should include the parents, either one or both! Should continue throughout the Elementary years with a parent being present at the classes. We need to get rid of the "feel good about me " activities the elementary curriculums have get back to the basics of the faith. Kids will live for an hour class without a craft or a snack!
My Middle school son attend the EDGE program at our parish last year and hated every minute of being there...his reason?...He wasn't being taught anything! At 12 years old he didn't want to attend EDGE because he said it was a waste of his time. The kids were rude and teh teachers couldn't control them. They were lucky if they learned 1 thing each month about the church or the sacraments.
We decided to teach everything now at home and we no longer attend the CCD/EDGE/LifeTEEN groups at our parish.
For my own children,
we use the Baltimore Catechism for many years to cover doctrine. We use Faith and Life texts for middle school grades. For high school we use the Fr. Laux books: Chief Truths of the Faith and Catholic Morality, Mass and the Sacraments, Catholic Apologetics, Introduction to the Bible, and then Anne Carroll's Following Christ in the World. (This last text we use in 12th grade due to mature materials discussed). We also try to do other things as a family to live our faith ( which we hope our children will carry on into their adulthood). We have the privilage to attend daily Mass, we pray for and support the Seminarians of our Archdiocese ( getting to know almost everyone of them), we attend as many Ordinations as we possibly can, and our family tries to be as active in our parish as we possibly can.
We recently attended a Confirmation at a parish in Gainesville, FL. It was very large with 60+ Confirmandi. OUr family was very sad and disappointed with how these Teens seemed so unprepared and also how they were so disrespectful. The Mass was a huge "Production", all the kids in Tux's and evening gowns, solo music performances, etc..etc.. My children wondered, "What happened to the MASS?"

We must all pray and work hard to make changes for our children and the future of our church!

I understand the concept of this article and the n...

2008-05-01T12:35:00.000-04:00

I understand the concept of this article and the need for evaluation of catechetical programs. But since this article is focused on Confirmation preparation, it brings up another question. We, parishes/catechists, often present Confirmation as a "next level" sacrament and that it should be contingent on meeting certain requirements. But I also know that the sacraments are channels of God’s free gift to us, his grace, and are dependent upon us only in that we cooperate with that grace and give assent, either ourselves or our parents for us. The Eastern Rite Catholic churches and the Orthdox churches confer the three sacraments of initiation at one time no matter the age, even as infants (thus not requiring any knowledge of the faith on the part of the infant). (See Catechism 1306-1308).

From my experience as a Confirmation teacher, preparation requirements for Confirmation (and other sacraments) have been used as an effort to keep children somehow connected and minimally catechized when otherwise they would be receiving nothing at their parishes or from their families, whether because the parish doesn't offer anything or the parents do not think catechism is important (probably because they never had it) and only show up for sacraments. Then we never see the children again until such time as they may return on their own as adults.

For parents, unfortunatley many of them have never been cathechized and many parishes do not offer anything for them either, so the cycle continues. So we come back to the same problem – poor or no catechesis to even evaluate.

The goal is to produce Catholics who know their fa...

2008-05-01T12:01:00.000-04:00

The goal is to produce Catholics who know their faith and live it. A personal relationship with Jesus is the end goal, but what would a relationship be without actually knowing the person with whom you supposedly have a relationship?

The key in my opinion is to be able to administer a test to gauge the effectiveness of the classroom based training, while not making the Confirmation Sacrament seem like a reward for a job well done. Or as it is commonly seen today, as a graduation from RE.

The parents have the best opportunity to pass on the faith to their children, not the RE program. As you say, there are folks who can memorize lots of stuff, but not actually have a full understanding of what they memorized. The case of St. Bernadette is a prime example of a person who could not perform well in school, but absolutely loved the Lord and his Church. What do you do with a person like this who really desires closer union with God, but cannot grasp the deeper concepts of the faith or memorize all the prayers. This could prevent those who are mentally deficient of encountering God sacramentally.

I say make sure you educate the parents, and enable them to educate their children and pass on the faith!

God Bless,

What still disturbs me, and I'm experiencing it ri...

2008-05-01T07:54:00.000-04:00

What still disturbs me, and I'm experiencing it right now, is that as important as I think this Level 2 testing is (and I did write the article with some level of passion), "head" knowledge isn't enough. It has to get into the heart and be lived. I know Catholics who can pass the Level 2 written test, but fail it when we get to Level 3 and 4. More on those levels next time. Pray, fast, your salvation and that of others is at stake.

I just read you article and could not believe the ...

2008-05-01T07:42:00.000-04:00

I just read you article and could not believe the timing of it. I am a Director of Religious Education and our Confirmation Program requires our students be tested in order for them to move forward. We have a two year program: Year I is mostly 8th graders and Year II is mostly 9th graders. Our curriculum covers the first two pillars of the Catechism in Year I (Creed and Sacraments) and the second year covers the 3th and 4th pillars (Morality and prayer). Last week was test day. We had prepared the studnets all year for this by giving them the test at the beginning of the year and over Christmas Break (take home). The end of the year is where they receive an actual grade for their performance. Our requirement is that they score a 70% or better to show they are ready to move forward. In fact in our Year II Confirmation class we gave all 37 students the answers to the test 4 weeks ahead of time to set them up for success on test day. The test is approxamately 91 questions with about 15 to 20 extra credit questions. Unfortunately only 13 of our 37 Year II students passed it and 12 out of 39 students passed it in Year I.

One of the frustrations I'm having this week is that parents are meeting with our pastor for an "exit interview" before Confirmation. The test has become a major discussion point in the meetings. After Confirmation classes last night my catechists shared how many of the students are not appreciative that we looked at their regular Sunday Mass attendance, class attendance all year and the required service hours performed as the other components that determined their readiness for Confirmation instead of the test alone. My pastor and I thought it would not be totally fair to see so many fail the test and to defer the Sacrament of Confirmation because of the test. Yes, we could have, but we chose to discuss with the students and parents how if they do not know their faith they are in danger of losing it. Some kids and parents are upset because of the fact that we even considered holding students back because of a "test grade" and some parents believe that the test was too hard and it should not have been expected that their child get a 70% or better on it (even though they knew about it all year and had the answers 4 weeks in advance). It has been a tough year trying to communicate with parents and students how important it is that we know our faith and live our faith. They are connected and not separate from each other. I hope these comments helps give some practical application the the article written.

I just read you r article on the opening page of C...

2008-05-01T07:00:00.000-04:00

I just read you r article on the opening page of Catholic Exchange. Fantastic! Our older children had been in public schools and we tried the religious education at the local parish. It really was a waste of time. W didn't want them to suffer the same fate that we suffered by a lack of catechesis. At that point, we used the faith in Life series at home to instruct them in the faith. I would tape all sorts of bits of information on the kitchen walls to assist them in their knowledge of the faith. This past year, we removed our two younger daughters from the Catholic Diocesan school. The religious education was really poor. They are now enrolled in the Seton Home Study. I was amazed at the expectations for religion...a text/workbook, the Baltimore Catechism, and a Bible history book. At first, I thought it would be too much for the girls to memorize. It's truly wonderful to see how easy children can memorize facts if we expect them to. I think we definitely need to raise the bar. Even in the Catholic High Schools we find our children know a great deal more about the Catholic Faith than their teachers. It just goes to show you that the Church is right on when she states that parents are the first and primary educators of the faith. I recommend purchasing these catechetical materials and teaching your own children. They can be purchased online. We are learning a lot by teaching them the basic truths of our faith. We all need to be reminded. It is true that the faith is more than a set of memorized facts. Pope Benedict XI told us that it is more than a set of rules, but rather a relationship with One we love. But, we still need to know what that One wants us to do with our lives. Thank you for the excellent article. It was encouraging.

Thank you for making connections I have also belie...

2008-05-01T06:39:00.000-04:00

Thank you for making connections I have also believed were relevant.

I have been a fan of Mr. Deming's since I read his book, Out of the Crisis, in 1997.

I have not finished reading your article as I have to head off to work, but will come back to it later and finish.

I look forward to more posts like this!

Excellent post! My background is in Management De...

2008-04-02T18:20:00.000-04:00

Excellent post! My background is in Management Development (M.A. in Industrial / Organizational Psychology), and I used to conduct Levels 1 - 4 assessments of training programs all the time in my corporate job. Now, I administer a lot of Level 2's for my four homeschooled children! :-) (And some Level 3's, more or less, as well!)

And I, too, wanted to cheer about the homily. Yes, we must memorize the faith, or we end up walking around with heads full of vague generalities and mush. For my kids, that includes the 10 Commandments, the names of the Books of the Bible, the Four Marks of the Church, the Four Evangelists, the 12 Apostles, etc. etc. It's so important!